[debian-devel:12602] cjk-latex / Japanese appealing desktop screenshot

[Fumitoshi UKAI <ukai@debian.or.jp>]

最近 #debian-devel (irc.openprojects.net)で Anthony (Anthony Fok
<foka@debian.org>)が元気に Debian Chinese を推進しています。
今、彼は netscape -{ja,ko,zh}でいろいろ動いてくれています。

で、その途中で次のような話がでてきました。誰か cjk-latex で日本語を
扱うための方法を知ってる人がいたら 彼 <foka@debian.org> か
debian-i18n/japanese/devel@lists.debian.org あたりで報告してもらえませんか?

18:46 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Hey, while you're here, do you know 
 if any Japanese users use "cjk-latex" (CJK for LaTeX) at all?  
 Or are there any desire to get the Japanese fonts in Debian working 
 with CJK?  :-)
18:49 >#debian-devel:ukai< Anothny: AFAIK, Japanese users use jtex or 
  ASCII ptex, and never heard using cjk-latex
18:49 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: Hehe, I see.  :-)  Thanks for the info.
18:49 <#debian-devel:gotom2> Anthony: ah, the server is down... but saying 
  of ukai's is all right.
18:49 >#debian-devel:ukai< can cjk-latex really handle Japanese ?
18:50 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: Yes.  (Werner Lemberg surely is 
  amazing.  :-)
18:50 >#debian-devel:ukai< hmm
18:50 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: It uses ttf2pk to change TrueType fonts
  to pk fonts.
18:51 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: I wonder how it would compare with jtex
  and ASCII ptex though.
18:51 <#debian-devel:gotom2> ukai: now trying apt-get install cjk-latex :-)
18:51 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom2: Hehe.  :-)
18:51 >#debian-devel:ukai< I don't use tex recently :)
18:51 <#debian-devel:Anthony> Currently, there's no Japanese font set up 
   for cjk-latex though.
18:51 <#debian-devel:Anthony> BTW, do any of your packages needs to modify
   /etc/ttf2pk/ttfonts.map?
18:52 <#debian-devel:Anthony> (Hehe, I maintain FreeType1.3.1, and naturally,
   I took it to my advantage, so ttfonts.map comes with the Arphic Chinese
   fonts already defined in ttfonts.map.  :-)
18:52 >#debian-devel:ukai< Anthony: hmm, I'll ask Japanese users about
   cjk-latex
18:53 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: Do jtex and ptex use VFlib or ttf2pk?
18:54 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: Thanks, BTW.  (My guess is that jtex
   might be better suited for their needs, but who knows, maybe someone
   would like CJK too.  :-)  I am quite amazed with Werner Lemberg because
   he is German and yet can speak/type/write Chinese and perhaps even
   Japanese and Korean.
18:54 <#debian-devel:gotom2> Anthony: i can't see any Japanese characters
   with cjk-latex :(
18:55 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom2: Yes, sorry, my fault... I haven't
   packaged any of the Japanese bitmap fonts that the upstream source provide.
18:55 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom2: BTW, how do jtex and ptex work?
   Do they use bitmap fonts?  Or postscript fonts?  Or TrueType fonts?
18:56 >#debian-devel:ukai< Anthony: dvi2ps uses vflib2/freetype2
18:56 <#debian-devel:gotom2> Anthony: jtex or ptex uses truetype font 
   created by VFlib.
18:57 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai, gotom2: I see.  Hmm... I wonder if
   there's an easy way to make cjk-latex handle fonts like jtex and ptex do.
18:58 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: Yes, if there is any interest of
   CJK-LaTeX from Japanese users, I could try making it work with the
   Japanese fonts in Debian.  :-)
18:58 >#debian-devel:ukai< Anthony: Thanks!
18:59 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: Hey, _thank_you!  :-)  I just hope I am
   not monopolizing the package, because while it works for CJK+Thai etc.,
   I have only been concentrating on the Chinese support portion and
   neglected the other parts... (sorry!)
19:05 <#debian-devel:Anthony> ukai: If you would like to see some sample
   Postscript files, here it is:  
   http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/language/chinese/CJK-4.2.0.rest.tar.gz
19:05 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom2: If you would like to see some sample
    Postscript files, here it is: 
    http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/language/chinese/CJK-4.2.0.rest.tar.gz
19:05 <#debian-devel:Anthony> (1.1MB download)
19:07 <#debian-devel:Anthony> I wonder if this is _the_ only LaTeX macro
    package that can simultaneously support Chinese, Japanese, Korean,
    Vietnamese and Thai.  :-)  Werner says that he expects one day CJK
    would be replaced by Omega though.
19:09 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: i heard Omega is working for CJK, and
    ETL is also working it
19:10 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: ETL worked, for example mule, 
    xemacs-utf2000, or something.
19:10 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Wow.  :-)  Yes, these are great news.  :-)
19:12 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Have you got a chance to look at
    "muletest.ps" and "rubytest.ps"?  :-)
19:13 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: I imagined that it's expansion of
    input system or something :-)
19:13 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: no... is it ready on web?
19:13 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: gotom2: If you would like to see some
    sample Postscript files, here it is:  
    http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/language/chinese/CJK-4.2.0.rest.tar.gz
19:13 <#debian-devel:Anthony> :-)
19:14 <#debian-devel:Anthony> It is a 1.1MB download.  (I didn't package 
    it because it is just example Postscript files.)
19:14 <#debian-devel:Anthony> But quite impressive.  :-)
19:14 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: WOW! Great!
19:15 <#debian-devel:gotom> ANthony: I surprised because muletest.ps shows
    'hurigana' which is the HIRAGANA character onto the KANJI!
19:15 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Probably the only current downside is
    that it has to convert each glyph to PK font before printing, so it
    takes quite a while unless the PK fonts are pre-made from the TrueType
    fonts.
19:16 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: hurigana = ruby?  :-)
19:16 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: Yes, 'ruby' is :)
19:16 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Yes, I am quite impressed by that too. 
    Ditto for those "pinyin" on top of Chinese sentences.  :-)
19:16 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Does jtex or ptex support hurigana too?
19:16 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: wow... greate.
19:17 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: i had not tried yet, but heard that
    it's easy.
19:19 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: That's good.  :-)  My guess is that
    Japanese users might feel more comfortable with jtex/ptex (since they
    have been using it for so long and perhaps it has more localized
    features (Japanese titles for chapters, etc.).  CJK is good for
    multi-lingual stuff though, and it is currently the "only" DFSG-free
    solution for Chinese typesetting AFAIK.
19:20 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: (for TeX, that is..)  Someone has made
    a patch for Abiword for Chinese support.  I guess the same goes for
    Japanese and Korean too, and soon Abiword should be truly
    multilingual.  :-)
19:20 [#debian-devel:Anthony] loves to dream.
19:20 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: it may also say with Japanese ptex,
    because ptex is non-free...
19:21 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: that's good news!
19:21 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: Hehe.  :-)  Korean users use HLaTeX,
    but I have never tried it.  (You can probably tell I don't know any
    Korean, except maybe "Kamsa Hamida" or something like that.
19:22 <#debian-devel:gotom> what is "Kamsa Hamida"?
19:23 <#debian-devel:Anthony> gotom: I think it means "Thank you" in Korean.
    I learnt it from a Korean lady while on a flight from Vancouver to
    Seoul.  :-)
19:23 <#debian-devel:Anthony> "Kam Sa" are Kanji.
19:23 <#debian-devel:wiggy> wow
19:24 <#debian-devel:wiggy> japanese invasion :)
19:24 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: And Chinese too.  :-)  Kamsa Hamida
    is Korean.  ;-)
19:24 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: hmm it's interesting.
19:24 [#debian-devel:Anthony] feels more and more strongly that Debian is
     truly a "Universal Operating System", as the web page suggests.  :-)
19:25 <#debian-devel:Anthony> "Kam" is the word for "feeling" (with the 
     symbol of a heart at the bottom)
19:25 <#debian-devel:gotom> Anthony: YES :)
19:25 <#debian-devel:wiggy> how is debian chinese coming along anyway?
19:26 <#debian-devel:wiggy> I haven't heard anything about it in over 
     half a year now I think
19:26 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: Okay, I guess.  :-)  Wanna see a 
     screenshot?  :-)
19:26 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: 
     http://www.debian.org/international/chinese/screenshot/
19:26 <#debian-devel:wiggy> I managed to get mozilla to show all languages 
     for www.debian.org correctly a while ago
19:26 <#debian-devel:Anthony> (a picture is better than a thousand words)
     ... 'cause I don't know how to describe it.  :-)
19:26 <#debian-devel:wiggy> except for russion iirc
19:27 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: Cool!  :-)
19:27 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: You installed the cyrillic fonts?
19:27 <#debian-devel:wiggy> yes
19:27 <#debian-devel:wiggy> I was a bit bored that day :)
19:27 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: Hey, you should've made a screenshot!  ;-)
19:28 <#debian-devel:wiggy> I can still do that I guess
19:28 <#debian-devel:wiggy> I just need to downgrade mozilla first, the m16 
     package kind of sucks :(
19:29 <#debian-devel:wiggy> Anthony: there needs to be a screenshot of vim
     in there :)
19:29 <#debian-devel:aj> who does the web pages?
19:29 <#debian-devel:aj> debian-www@xxxxx, or?
19:29 <#debian-devel:wiggy> yes
19:29 <#debian-devel:Anthony> wiggy: Okay, we'll probably make that... 
     You want a vim in a terminal, or "gvim"?
19:30 <#debian-devel:Anthony> aj: Yes, we do.  How come?  :-)
19:30 <#debian-devel:wiggy> gvim will look better I guess

PS.
それから やはり screenshot があるといいと思いました。
Pure Debian で日本語がバッチリな Desktop の screenshot とか
いいの持ってる人いませんかね?
http://www.debian.or.jp/ のどこかに置いておくと よさそうです。

-- 
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