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Re: Sven Rudolph: Re: still looking for someone to adopt sgml-tools?

From: Taketoshi Sano <xlj06203@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: Sven Rudolph: Re: still looking for someone to adopt sgml-tools?
Date: Fri, 20 Aug 1999 01:03:09 +0900
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佐野＠浜松です。

 debian-sgml@lists.debian.org に sgml-tools (v1) のメンテナ募集の
メールが出てたので、誰もやらないなら応募しようかと BTS を調べたら
既に Stephane Bortzmeyer が引き継ぎの準備をしてるみたいでした。

それでついでに JF patch をマージしてもらいたいな、と以下のメールを
出したら、さっそく sgmltools-2 のメンテナである Adam Di Carlo から
返事が届きました。

まず、最初に私の送ったメールから。

  | Hi.
  | 
  | I have just notice that  now prepares to take 
  | the job from http://www.debian.org/Bugs/db/pa/lsgml-tools.html,
  | and I am glad to see it.
  | 
  | In article <E10yhMh-0000ZI-00@burrito>
  |  Adam Di Carlo <adam@xxxxxxxxxxx> writes:
  | 
  | > I would wish that someone who actually *uses* sgmltools (v1) would
  | > adopt this package!
  | > 
  | > Volunteers?  Please let me know....
  | 
  | I had used sgml-tools_1.0.9-1 (for slink) in order to make my local
  | customized sgml-tools-ja_1.0.9.0.1j-1.0.1slink1 (for slink) package 
  | which is distributed from 
  |   ftp://ftp.debian.or.jp/debian-jp/project-jp/experimental/ 
  | for the convenient of people in JF Project. 
  | 
  | JF (http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/) is the project for creating the original
  | documents and translating the LDP documents into Japanese Language.
  | # I am a member of that project.
  | 
  | My local package use the patch from JF Web site in order to enable
  | Japanese support on text conversion tool (sgml2txt -l ja -c nippon),
  | because current sgmltools 1.0.9 can not handle Japanese Characters
  | in text conversion, while in html conversion there is no problem.
  | 
  | The patch is distributed from
  |   http://www.linux.or.jp/JF/workshop/archives/sgml-tools-1.0.9j.diff.gz
  | 
  | I see The original & upstream author of sgml-tools say that sgml-tools (v1)
  | has no support now, and transition to DocBook and sgmltools-2 (v2) is
  | recommended. But right now the development of v2 may be suspended because
  | the author wrote it on http://www.sgmltools.org/suspended.html, so I don't
  | know what should I recommend to use for JF people. JF people have the will
  | to upgrade to v2 tools, but development of JP patch for 2.0 series does
  | not progress for several months and now the combination of sgml-tools 1.0.9 
  | and JF patch for it is only usable solution for them.
  | 
  | I myself does not know much about SGML, DSSSL, python, or XML. 
  | I am only a user of the tools, and am interested in writing 
  | documents more than hacking the code of conversion tool, but 
  | if that work is needed, I will take the job. 
  | 
  | Now I am happy to know that Stephane will be the new maintainer of 
  | sgml-tools and I hope that he can merge that JF patch into his coming 
  | new package.
  | 
  | # Ah, yes, I must report this patch to BTS first of all,,,

これに対する返事が以下。

In <E11H9z8-0003O9-00@burrito>,
 at Wed, 18 Aug 1999 13:58:50 -0400,
 on Re: Sven Rudolph: Re: still looking for someone to adopt sgml-tools? ,
  Adam Di Carlo <adam@xxxxxxxxxxx> さん writes:

adam> 
adam> > I see The original & upstream author of sgml-tools say that sgml-tools (v1)
adam> > has no support now, and transition to DocBook and sgmltools-2 (v2) is
adam> > recommended. But right now the development of v2 may be suspended because
adam> > the author wrote it on http://www.sgmltools.org/suspended.html, so I don't
adam> > know what should I recommend to use for JF people. JF people have the will
adam> > to upgrade to v2 tools, but development of JP patch for 2.0 series does
adam> > not progress for several months and now the combination of sgml-tools 1.0.9 
adam> > and JF patch for it is only usable solution for them.
adam> 
adam> First, I want to make sure you are clear on the difference between
adam> SGMLtools v1 and v2.  v1 is a local, non-std DTD (LinuxDoc), which
adam> uses custom SGMLasp to provide rendering; therefore, it is
adam> non-standard and custom thru-and-thru.

"thru-and-thru" ってどういう意味でしたっけ ?

だいたいの意味は「LinuxDoc DTD は Local な拡張で標準ではない。
レンダリングのためにカスタマイズした SGMLasp を利用している」
ということでいいでしょうか。

adam> v2 of SGMLtools is completely different.  It is based on the DocBook
adam> DTD, which is maintained by OASIS, and has been around for a while,
adam> and is very popular for technical documentation.  Moreover, it uses
adam> DSSSL, which is an ISO standard for doing rendering.  In the future
adam> this might move to and XML DTD and using XSL instead of DSSSL, but
adam> that doesn't matter to the author.  See the URLs in
adam> /usr/doc/docbook-stylesheets/README.Debian for more info.

こちらは
「v2 がベースにしている DocBook DTD は OASIS によって保守されており、
これは以前から普及しているもので、また技術的な文書によく利用されている。
さらに v2 は ISO 標準の DSSSL をレンダリングのために利用しており、
将来的には XML DTD に移行して DSSSL の代わりに XSL を利用するように
なるだろう。しかしこれは作者にとっては関係の無いことだ。
詳細は /usr/doc/docbook-stylesheets/README.Debian に記載されている URL を
調べてみるといいだろう」
という感じかな。

上記の「記載されている URL」というのは  /usr/doc/docbook-stylesheets/index.html
に書かれている http://www.jclark.com/dsssl/ とか http://www.oreilly.com/davenport/
のことを言っているのでしょうか ?

# まあ、Adam に聞けばいいことかもしれんが。

adam> Therefore, with or without SGMLtools, adopting DocBook is a good idea,
adam> even in SGMLtools went away tomorrow.

「従って、SGMLtools があろうと無かろうと、DocBook を採用するというのは
いい考えだ。たとえ SGMLtools が明日消滅するようなことになったとしても。」

adam> Moreover, Norm Walsh's DSSSL stylesheets DocBook are i18n and l10n'd.
adam> They already include japaense support.  As the Jade maintainer, and
adam> the sgml-data and docbook-stylesheets maintain, I'd love to work with
adam> you and the upstream maintainers to make sure that any issues are
adam> solved.  It's also important that we have a convenience SGML framework
adam> for translators to use.

「さらに良いことには、Norm Walsh の DSSSL スタイルシート DocBook 集は
既に i18n かつ l10n されている。これには日本語のサポートも含まれている。
私は Jade のメンテナーとして、また sgml-data および docbook-stylesheets の
メンテナーとして、君達 (おそらく私が引合いに出した JF people を念頭に
置いているものと思う) や upstream maintainer 達と協力して、(SGML による
文書作成が) 問題無く実用的に使えることを確認するために作業したい。」

# () 内は私の推定による補足。

adam> > Now I am happy to know that Stephane will be the new maintainer of 
adam> > sgml-tools and I hope that he can merge that JF patch into his coming 
adam> > new package.
adam> 
adam> Yes that would be nice.  Despite what I said above, I think we ought
adam> to provide *some* level of support to SGMLtools v1.

「たしかにそのとおり。私は上に書いたこととは別に、我々 (Debian) は
 SGMLtools v1 に対する  *一定の* レベルのサポートを提供するべきだと
考えている。」

こんな感じなのかな。すくなくとも Adam は sgml-tools への JP パッチの
マージに賛成してくれているようです。

# 誰か potato の sgml-tools (v1) に JP patch のマージを要請する
# Bug Report を出してくれい。

-- 
     ＃わたしのおうちは浜松市、「夜のお菓子」で有名さ。
    <xlj06203@xxxxxxxxxxx> : Taketoshi Sano (佐野　武俊)

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